Oh god, he’s taking this personally and I hate that. I want him to know this is so not about him or his interpretation or adaptation of Castiel. He did beautifully. I want him to understand that above all else.
What makes me sick is not only did the CW rob Dean and Castiel of a happy ending and the queer community of representation for MONEY but the fallout landed on Jensen Ackles and he couldn’t even defend himself. Him and Misha filmed the scene and reciprocation only to have it butchered without their knowledge and Jensen took the slander for it
I’ve just realised. The CW didn’t just bury their gays in the narrative. They tried to bury the storyline too. They tried to bury their entire gay storyline. Its like double bury your gays. TRIPLE, even, because they has Cas confess and immediately killed him, and Dean’s ONLY VIABLE HAPPY ENDING was with Cas, and instead of dealing with that, they killed him too, AND THEN ALL THE FUCKERY OF THEM CHANGING THE PLOT AND CUTTING THE RECIPROCATION AND CUTTING CAS OUT OF THE FINAL AND BARELY EVEN HAVING HIS NAME MENTIONED BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WOULD READ AS RECIPROCATED GAY.
THEY DIDNT JUST BURY CAS AND DEAN; THEY TRIED TO BURY THE WHOLE FUCKING STORYLINE. ITS TRIPLE STRENGTH BURY YOUR GAYS, I’M GONNA COMMIT ARSON
For those of you that think this is just about Destiel, I’m sorry you’re wrong.
This is about Lily, who was the first of the special children to die. She was murdered and hung on a tower for shock value.
This is about Corbett, who was the first and only of the ghost facers to die. who’s sexuality was used for comic relief (yes, I know we all enjoy the “Gay love can pierce through the veil of death and save the day” line, but let’s call a spade a spade.
This is about Demian and Barns, whose relationship was used for comedic shock.
This is about Charlie, our first recurring LGBTQ+ character, whose brutal off screen death was used to “move the story along.”
This is about Max Banes, whose story was forgotten about, even though there was obviously more to tell.
This is about Kaia, who was killed after expressing interest in Claire. And claire, for being almost erased from the narrative after the confirmation that she felt the same.
This is about AU Charlie, who lost TWO separate girlfriends and then was killed herself. (And erasing the scene where she awkwardly talks to Sam about her tryst with ROWENA)
And yes, it is about Castiel. The NB Angel in a Male vessel who fell in love with a man, and was killed after confessing said love.
And Dean Winchester, because honestly, who knows, but all signs point a certain way, but it is not our story to tell. it was his. And he was killed before he could. Before he could even explore what it means to be truly free, he was killed.
These aren’t the only instances on the show either. There are several throughout ALL of the seasons where LGBTQ+ people have been used for comedy or shock value and then never heard from or seen again.
They could have done so much by just letting three little words, Hell, two fucking words, on screen, but they refused to make a stand and chose to pander to a dying audience.
So yes, we will celebrate the “Y yo a ti, Cas.” We will try to figure out what went wrong in translation or editing, because this is so much bigger than Destiel.
For those of you who see these examples and say “ see, you’ve always had rep, you just wanted to see Castiel and Dean together.” Let me ask you? Is killing or writing off every LGBTQ+ member on your show really good rep?
For those of you who say “ Well, Dean was always straight and changing it this late in the Game would have been pandering!” While, I know alot of people saw him as uber heterosexual, some of us never did, but that’s not the point. People do come out later in life you know? Being anything other than strictly heterosexual is terrifying. There are so many risks. It takes years to build up the courage to be yourself, some people never even get the chance.it would not have been pandering, it would have been groundbreaking. It would have let people see that it is never too late to be free. But they didn’t want to do that.
For those of you who think it was fetishization of two “hot dudes”….. maybe for some, and those people should be ashamed, because sexuality should never be fetishized. But get this, the story of Destiel was loved by all members of the community, as well as straight people too, and believe me, some of those members have no desire to see two dudes getting it on. It was the story of unconditional love and respect that drew us in.
This isn’t just about Destiel. It IS about showing people that it’s okay to love who you love and being free to be who you are, regardless of what society thinks.
They really murdered their two canonically queer main characters and sent a message that if you’re queer you will never be happy to their queer fans and undid 15 years of a storyline and character development just to…..what? Please a few homophobes?? Yall could be making BANK off of canon destiel right now if you didn’t care more about the 3 homophobes that watch the show. Smh.
1. Dubbing companies don’t normally get the original scripts; they get the original scene. (x) (x)
2. The original title of the episode was “The Truth,” which they later changed to “Despair.” The title of the episode in Spanish is “La verdad” (x)
3. In final US version, Dean responds to Cas’ “I love you” with “Don’t do this, Cas.” In the Spanish dub, this line is “y yo a ti” (”and I, you”). BUT the subtitles for the scene in Spanish still transcribed as “No hagas esto, Cass” (“Don’t do this, Cas”). (x)
4. Rewatching the scene, you can see that the entire “Don’t do this, Cas” shot is completely out of place. It’s not just a different take- it’s a shot from 2 minutes earlier, when Cas tells Dean about his deal with the Empty. After the “What are you talking about?” line, the rest of the scene is shot in closeups until Cas throws Dean. (See below the cut for a walkthrough of the scene).
5. If you remove this shot, the only reaction of Dean’s we see is this emotional realization, complete with truly outstanding globus response (sensation of a lump in the throat, typically felt with an intense emotional experience). I think this is where some original footage was edited out, likely where Dean reciprocates. When Dean turns around to see the Empty, he’s completely teared up.
6. [Previous unconfirmed rumors that make more sense after the Spanish dub reveal] There are rumors that the Portuguese promo for the episode had Dean saying “Me too” while collapsed on the floor after Cas is taken. There are rumors (I can’t find verification anywhere) that Jensen may have shot ADR of him crying in late October to go over this scene. This seems to imply that the “Me too” was after Cas gets taken, but it could also be the Portuguese team trying to mesh the audio they recorded for the original scene with the Frankenstein’ed final version. All of this is unconfirmed, so take it with a grain of salt.
tl;drThis is confirmation that they shot Dean reciprocating Cas’ confession of romantic love and that we have confirmed bi!Dean. It’s also confirmation that sometime during the COVID hiatus they decided to not only edit out Dean’s confession, but to sloppily re-cut the entire scene to cover it up and make it look like Dean didn’t want it (”Don’t do this, Cas.”), when originally this line was likely in response to Cas saying he was going to summon the Empty to kill him and save Dean.
Breakdown of the shots in the scene below the cut:
Ok. So I promised a big meta about the dubbing thing and so while I don’t have all the answers YET, here’s a bit of perspective on the differences between Despair and The Truth.
First, a little background. I am a former professional dubbing translator. While I worked on anime series from Japanese to Spanish, rather than in live action ones from English to Spanish, the process is not that different. Also, I worked in Mexico, where Supernatural is dubbed, so that’s why I can make the assumptions I make. Finally, my specialization in college was translation from English to Spanish, so I guess I know what the hell I’m talking about.
So let’s start on HOW you translate something for a dub. Back in the day, you got a ton of VHS tapes with the episodes on them with time codes, and, if you were lucky, a shooting script. This is to say, it was not a transcript of the actual words said in the episode, but the script BEFORE the actors, directors, and everyone else had a hand on what was said and changed. And thus, anything adlibbed? Is not going to be in that script which, at least for the anime side of things? Was a nightmare as the script was usually “And here X actor can say whatever they want” and I had to go and listen to the scene ten thousand times. Now a days, you get either a video file or a streaming link, and sometimes, the shooting script. If you get a script, btw, you can also not get a script in the original language. I know that the person who had to translate Sprited Away to Spanish was working off a German script, not the Japanese one. So yeah, some things can be lost in translation there.
THEN you get to translate. BUT you can’t just translate word by word. You have to adapt it so that it will sound like something a person will say, and sometimes, literally is not the way to do it. And in particular, Mexican dubbing has a reputation to uphold as the “Neutral” dub that is send to most Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America, so we can’t use certain words (I don’t have the list at hand, but I remember that I couldn’t use “Llanta” for Tire, and so I had to use “Neumatico”. And no “sweaters” or “hotcakes” or stuff like that), AND we have to match the lips of the original video. Which is like, the worst nightmare ever because of what we call “labiales”, that is to say, the letters where lips close.
I can’t tell you how much we all loved when a character gave a long winded speech with their back to the camera due to those damned closed lip letters.
All this is to say that sometimes, the line could be “We are all in this together for good or bad”, and the translation become something more like “Estamos en esto, por las buenas o las malas” (We’re on this, the good way or the bad way) or “Estamos juntos en las buenas y en las malas” (We’re together in the good and the bad), depending on the translator, dub director, and voice actor.
Depending on the client, that is, the original owner of the series, sometimes they will review the translation once it’s all dubbed and edited. I know that in the Avengers movie, a Disney rep was present on the cabin and forbade any changes from the script, which resulted on a couple of awkward lines in the end result. I don’t know if that’s the case for Supernatural, but I honestly doubt it. Still, translators can’t make huge changes for the dialogue. One couldn’t just ADD a relationship that wasn’t there, no matter what.
(As an aside, due to the very conservative mindset of some tv stations, it’s more common that gay relationships become more ambiguous, by changing “I love you” to “Te quiero” which can be more of a filial love than a romantic one. And well, that one case in Sailor Moon where a gay character was changed into a woman because the dub director honestly thought the character was a woman. But that was in the nineties)
Now, let’s go to how Castiel’s speech was translated.
The original, according to Superwiki, went like this:
Castiel: You’re the most caring man on Earth. You are the most selfless, loving human being I will ever know. You know, ever since we met, ever since I pulled you out of Hell, knowing you has changed me. Because you cared, I cared. I cared about you. I cared about Sam. I cared about Jack. I cared about the whole world because of you. You changed me, Dean.
Dean: Why does this sound like a goodbye? Castiel: Because it is. I love you. Dean: Don’t do this, Cas. Cas.
And the translation, as it was aired, went like this (And people, you have no idea the war flashbacks transcribing this gave me, so I hope you appreciate it):
Castiel: Eres el hombre mas amoroso sobre la Tierra. Un hombre sin egoismo; el hombre mas generoso que haya visto, y que jamas vere. Sabes que desde que nos conocimos y desde que te saque del infierno, el conocerte me ha cambiado. Porque a ti te importa. Y a mi me importa. Me importas tu. Y me importa Sam, me importa Jack, me importa todo el mundo. Y fue por ti. Tu me cambiaste, Dean.
Dean: Porque suena esto a despedida?
Castiel: Porque asi fue. Te amo.
Dean: Yo a ti, Cas. (The empty appears and Billie opens the door) Cas…
Castiel: Adios Dean
Dean: No!
Ok. So… At first glance, they’re pretty much the same until we get to the I love you. BUT let’s dissect it a little bit.
Cas begins with a “Eres el hombre mas amoroso sobre la Tierra” which is not how I would’ve translated “The most caring man on Earth” since “caring” is more like “Cariñoso” rather than “amoroso” which would be “loving”, and yes, there’s a difference. Plus, “el hombre mas amoroso” sounds a bit clunky, so Personally, I’d have gone with “Eres el hombre mas cariñoso en la Tierra”, that would’ve given us more time for the rest of the speech, but I wonder if the translator choice for Amoroso instead was more due to the fact that “amor” (love) is more clearly romantic than “care” (cariño, in a sense, more on this later) and so it foreshadows the end.
Again, with the literal clunkyness we have “Un hombre sin egoismo” (A man without egoism) which sounds weird no matter what language you speak, and it should’ve been “Un hombre dadivoso” (A giving man) or “un hombre desinteresado” (a selfless man) although the second could be mis-construed as “a man without interests” so “dadivoso” would’ve better. But the more puzzling is that the Spanish separates the selfless man from the next, which is REALLY confusing as the English is “the most loving man”, which would be “el hombre mas amoroso” making it quite redundant, so the Spanish changes it to “the most generous man”, “el hombre mas generoso”. To add to this, Cas continues with “that I have seen and I will ever see” instead of “That I know”, because it’s far more poetic. And loving.
So yeah, Mexican Cas is basically saying that Dean Winchester is made of love and puppies.
Ahem.
The next part “You know, ever since I pulled you out of hell, you’ve changed me” is more or less word for word, and the only thing that changes is that the English sounds more like a question and the Spanish one is an affirmation. YOU KNOW that ever since I pulled you out of hell, you changed me.” Little verb tense play, that doesn’t change much except Cas’s resolution to say what he has to say.
And then we get to the part that made me squeal out loud. Because we go from
“Because you cared, I cared. I cared about you. I cared about Sam. I cared about Jack. I cared about the whole world because of you”
To
“Porque a ti te importa. Y a mi me importa. Me importas tu. Y me importa Sam, me importa Jack, me importa todo el mundo.” Which at first glance is the same, but NOPE.
First change: The original is in past tense “I cared”. Spanish version is in present tense: “I care”.
Which is a little non important thing except when you remember that simple present means “immutable absolute truth that won’t change with time”
Second, the choice of word for care.
I mentioned before that Care can be Cariño, as in filial, non romantic love (Or romantic love pet name, as it can also be Darling. It’s one of THOSE words). Other translations for care include “cuidado” (as in attention, concern, keeping, and worry), and of course “interesarse” (Which also can be care), “preocuparse” (care, bother, trouble, mind, fuss), and yes, “importar” but “importar” ONLY translates to English as a verb as “import”, “matter” “amount to” and notice how none of those words include “love”.
Mexican Cas is not saying “you love the world, and so I do”. Mexican Cas is saying “The world matters to you, and thus it matters to me, but my feelings for the World (and Sam, and Jack) are not in the same league as my feelings for you.”
And then Dean asks “Why does this sound like a Goodbye”, just like in English, in present tense…
And Mexican Cas replies in PAST tense. “Porque asi fue”. And THIS is important because it means that everything he said before WAS the goodbye, and not what comes next. All the rest? Is in the past. “Because it was”. Not “Because it IS”. And the next part? Is their future.
I love you.
Te amo.
Simple present. No ambiguity like “te quiero”. Spanish Te amo is for romantic love. Not brotherly, not family, not bro-mantic. ROMANTIC.
It’s like “I’m IN love with you” (Although that’d be “Estoy enamorado de ti” and I doubt that would’ve fit in the time Misha spoke)
And of course, the answer. “Yo a ti, Cas”. Not “And I, you” as I’ve seen it before (And I also thought it was, until transcribing the scene) but a simple “I, you, Cas.” Which ok, pretty cave-speak, but the meaning is pretty clear. Dean Winchester loves his gay angel.
It is also telling that the empty doesn’t appear until AFTER Dean confessed, so no, Mexican Cas is not “happy with the saying”, he had to get to the “happy with the having”.
And when Billy appears, it does seem as if he wants to say something more, but Cas is a love-sick selfsacrificing dumbass and so we all get our hearts broken.
I did get in contact with Dean Winchester’s mexican voice actor, and am waiting for answers to a small interview I did with him which includes the question “did that And I you, Cas” was in the script, and am trying to contact Castiel’s mexican voice actor. So I will be updating you on that. But I hope this clears up some of the questions about how Mexican dubbing made Destiel Canon :D
Fun fact: Mandalorians touch foreheads when they want to show affection but cant take off their helmets. It’s called a Keldabe kiss. (This is also an ironic term for straight up head butting someone.)
that makes this so much worse:
FYI Jengo Fett’s (Boba’s dad) head is still in that helmet
I know it’s essentially “affectionate head butting” but I’ve always found the concept of the Keldabe Kiss fascinating bc the actors who played Jango and young Boba Fett are Māori and in māori culture they have the hongi which is a traditional greeting of touching noses/foreheads
Like I know it’s probably not that deep but I’ve always wondering if maybe that partly inspired the above moment with Boba
this is why i always powder the fuck out of my forehead before going to a community meeting lol. you end up leaving foundation on 40 elders’ foreheads if u arent prepared lmao
or if you dont know how to tai chi, ‘earthbender breaks’ work just as well
[Start I.D.: therapist Hack: anxiety is physical, so it needs a physical response, AKA fight or flight, take a walk for ten minutes it tricks your brain into thinking you’re running away, you will start to feel relieved. End I.D.]
I don’t usually comment on posts like this but for over an entire year I suffered majorly from panic disorder experiencing DOZENS of panic attacks a day, to the point where it was a problem for me to leave the house or even my bed! Until one night i was freaking the Fuck Out, i was like! Screw it! I’ll make a run for it! I left the house at like 2am and just walked. Run a little occasionally and get REALLY angry while doing it and the panic would disappear! Instead of giving my head room to panic i’d give myself a goal: just walk around the block twice and THEN see how you feel. And reeaaally focus on that goal. Sometimes it’d take 3 hours to pass and sometimes only 10 minutes, but not once, to this day, has just getting out there and give into the fight or flight response not helped. By taking action you’re tricking your brain into regaining control when you feel out of control during panic/anxiety!
